Betta breeding

Thought I'd throw out some things I have noticed with breeding bettas.
I had a pair spawn in the smallest nest and I never saw any eggs. I removed the female three days later and much to my surprise the male had a hundred little ones tucked into the corner! So now I know that even if I don't see eggs in the nest to leave the pair be unless he is trying to kill the female. Some spawns seem to take more than one day of introduction, it sometimes takes a week or more.
Also I read that an older female with a younger male will give you a higher percentage of males in the spawn.
Pairs that have spawned before are a lot more mellow, they don't fight and just hang out till they are ready I guess.
If the temp is not near 80 degrees or more, it probably won't happen.
Rain or snow helps out a lot!
I have a male that does not build a nest until the eggs are falling...he's kinda lazy like that but he has been a good breeder.
Feed fry microworms as soon as they are swimming or they will eat each other!
How is everyone else doing? Anything you noticed?

I hope there are some folks who would like some bettas in a couple of months. My competition pair have their second spawn about a week old and although neither spawn is real large, 30 or so, I now have several dozen and I'm starting to get a little nervous about tank space. The first spawn is about a month old and have mostly finished developing their air breathing so I hope to be able to move them out of the spawning tank. In my enthusiasm, I managed to get two other pairs to spawn too. And again very small numbers but it's still more. And at this stage I have no idea how they'll turn out. From what I've read, betta genetics is less straight forward than guppy genetics so great parents don't guarantee great offspring. I'll have to wait and see. How's everyone else doing?

What types are you breeding pops?

The main pair is halfmoon dragons, white bodies with red fins. There's a turquoise pair. The male is a double tail that's very large with large fins. I didn't think he could get the job done-- thanks to the female for not gi ing up. The third pair are also halfmoons. The male is hard to describe-- creamy white with dark red between the rays.

Bettas with a cream colored matte body (no shiny scales) and red or blue fins are referred to as "Cambodian". It is thought that is where that color form originated from. It is a recessive color and sometimes will pop up, or you can breed for it specifically using two cambodian bettas.
Interestingly I bred a turquoise/white marbled female to a turquoise male double tail. I think I see some cambodian showing up in a few fry as they have no shine to them while the other fry are showing a blue sheen. We will see.
The female is a halfmoon and she carries the doubletail gene which is recessive. The male is a doubletail plakat (meaning short finned). I have 50% double tail fry. The rest will carry the gene but not have a double tail.
Betta genetics are actually easier than guppy genetics because tail types/fin types are mapped out and while color is variable to some degree, if you buy pedigreed stock from known breeders, then the colors will breed true. Breeders usually keep their strains true to color such as blue, red, yellow. If you are showing your fish at an IBC event as a turquoise betta, having a red color in the fins would be considered a flaw. But for our purposes this is not an issue so it will be interesting to see what colors show up.

The main male has an awesome shiny white body, including his whole head. If I ever get around to pictures, share them. He really is awesome. His dark red gills really are cool when he flairs them.
The turquoise pair are both all blue-turquoise, no red, the male slightly darker blue.
The third male, cream colored with scarlet hints can only be seen in a picture.
Maybe we can do some workshop meetings about taking pictures??? And putting them on this web-site???

I am going to have Dave pick me some bettas from Chicago, I hope to get back in the game

Mark

Pops how are your betta fry doing? How big are they now? I think I might have to jar some of mine soon. Problem is that they look like all females right now? Because they are short finned stock, sexing them is proving difficult. I might just bring the whole batch to the next meeting and get some opinions on sexing them. As long as they don't start fighting, I've only seen them nip at each other every now and then. I guess I'm getting antsy on moving them to make room.

My first spawn for the competition was with cambodian style fish, white bodies and red fins. The male had awesome dragon white; the female had a maroon tint in her white. All their babies were white bodies, most develop red fins; some have a turquoise color too. The largest from the first spawn is definitely a male, getting longer and more pointed fins every day, and the white getting more hints of the red. His dorsal just started to get longer rays yesterday and his pectorals are getting red. He's between 2 and 2.5 inches and growing quickly. So far he's not been aggressive except to maintain dominance. His gill extensions are coloring up so I assume he's starting to mature. The rest of his spawn mates are closer to 1 to 1.5 inches and following his same pattern, except about half have that blueish tint on their bodies as they move. I'd like it if these turn toward dragon coloring. The second spawn is growing much faster and many of them are an inch long. I'm keeping my eyes on them for any sign of aggression. There are some in both spawns that are showing the longer, pointy fin pattern. Males I assume. I believe they stay somewhat tolerant of each other for much of their body growing but once they're separated there's no putting them back together so I'm not wanting to jar any until I have to. My turquoise pair was with a double tail male and halfmoon female. They're about 3/4 of an inch and starting to grow faster. At least half are double tails with distinctly different fin patterns (like yours in the pictures). Can't see any sex differences in them at all.

How big are your bettas getting to be? Do you see any fin changes, longer or more pointed? How about their gill flaps, color or size changes? Once I got mine into grow out tanks, their size increased at an amazing rate. I kept them in the spawning tank too long.Y

They are still growing and at 1 1/2 inches, some maybe 2". They are in a ten gallon, I wonder if it's too small a tank now? The colors are getting more intense. I don't know if they will have dragon scales or not but I am surprised by the range of colors. I have greens, dark blues, mint green, pastel greens, marbled blues and a couple of reddish purples. They flare at each other occasionally and make attempts to nip but nothing serious. I think the largest one is a male. Some of them appear to be getting slightly longer fins but I still cannot tell males from females. I had a dwarf one, really unusual looking and round like a bubble but his head and fins were normal, just his body was extremely truncated. Actually kinda cute. I sold him to Deb. My second batch is still very small and I had them in with guppies but I think the guppies are eating all the food. I'll have to move them soon. This month everything seems reluctant to spawn so maybe they need a rest.

Pop, how many spawns did you get?

Mark

Hi Mark:

I concede total winning honors to jikin. I had two spawns from the competition pair-- both 2 to 3 weeks later than hers. I also got 2 other spawns for fun from 2 other pair, not for competition. When you talked about your "good" first luck losing one of a pair, I got extra fish and figured I might as well spawn the extras, if possible, since they were nice lookers too. It has been a blast and at 2 and at 3 months old the young are coming into completely different color than they had originally and the fins keep growing. I have to sit and watch them every day to see how much they've changed. Even if they're not part of a competition, they are great winners!

Five pairs of bettas, two bubble nest and not one egg. I will try to get three or four more pairs and with a little luck maybe something will happen.

Mark

I had some bettas show up in a spawn that look for lack of a better term like silver or platinum in color. It's an unusual color for sure. I guess white with a metallic look to them. They came from a dragon scale male/blue female cross. I might bring one to the meeting to show.

Could it ben I see small dots swimming in one of my tanks.  I only see 4 or 5.
I remove mom. When do I take the male out?

Mark

If the babies are out of the nest I think Dad can go.

Usually the fry are starting to escape Dad and free swimming, as in they no longer dart to the surface but swim normally. Make sure Mom is out first, then Dad. Sometimes Dad will eat the fry if he sees a female so he can breed again. It's rare but it does happen, especially with new Dads. Congrats.   

The baby bettas I had were so tiny, at first I thought there were only a few. Later on there ended up being many more; they're so tiny they can hide or be missed very easily. Hope you have more too.
What parents did you use?
Pops

I got my second spawn. I have been using green water for food.

Mark

You might try the microworms too. They are pretty small.

I have been using the micro worms but the bettas are so small.

Mark

How many baby bettas do you think you've got?

I am not sure, maybe 30 from the first batch, about 1/4 in long. The second and third batch are just dots and this point.

Mark

Well, I have another pair with eggs.
These things take forever to grow. My first spawn is about a quarter inch.

Mark